Θέμα: Nord N-2501 from Israel???

[nickypooh]

 :
i just read that Israel sold HAF some Noratlases, in 1978.
if so, does anyone know if they wore the IAF's camouflage for a while, in HAF service?????
knowing our HAF, all the aircraft we received, would maintain their current colors,
at least for a while.
Here's some links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Noratlas

http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/2848/noratlas.htm

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=103718

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Israel%20-%20Air%20Force/Nord%20N-2501D%20Noratlas/0374328/L/&width=1024&height=725&sok=WHERE__(aircraft_generic_%3D_%27Nord_N-2501ESCSLASH2502ESCSLASH2504_Noratlas%27)_&sort=_order_by_airline_&photo_nr=150&prev_id=0164630&next_id=NEXTID


let me know

[Θανάσης]

As far as i know, only Germany did sell us Noratlas and yes, they maintain their Nato-camo till the end of the 70s.

[nickypooh]

why was this post moved here?
cause it's in english?
it's a question about the Hellenic Air Force, getting Noratlases from Israel.
can you move it back, so more people will get to read this?
thanks.

[nickypooh]

thanks for moving it back. 

i have the feeling that HAF flew some Noratlases with the IAF colours for a while.
They did that with the ones from Germany.
and also did that with other aircraft.
F-5s from Jordan, Netherlands.
F-104s from spain, norway, netherlands, germany.
RF-4Gs from germany.
so on and on........................

[Fantasma337]

i have the feeling that HAF flew some Noratlases with the IAF colours for a while.

No

They did that with the ones from Germany.

Yes

and also did that with other aircraft.
F-5s from Jordan, Netherlands.
F-104s from spain, norway, netherlands, germany.
RF-4Gs from germany.
so on and on........................

But not with Noraltas'...

If I may ask what your source is? Thanks!

[phantomphlyer]

I saw your e-mail address and I assume that nick gerousis is your name, right? It sounds greek too me, why are you writing in English? 

[mmaker]

I saw your e-mail address and I assume that nick gerousis is your name, right? It sounds greek too me, why are you writing in English? 

Tάσο,
http://www.modelclub.gr/forums/index.php/topic,3486.0/highlight,beaver.html

this is my first post here. i'm greek, but live in the U.S.
i won't really be able to post in greek, i hope english is ok.

[nickypooh]

my source was reading about the noratlas on wikipedia, and then I checked into it a bit more.
then there was this page: http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/2848/noratlas.htm

it just makes sense, seeing how HAF has used other second hand aircraft in the previous users colours.
but i leave it up to you, the experts to look into it a bit further.

and yes, i'm greek, but raised in the US.
and am a fanatic about Hellenic aviation.
plan to build plenty of models over time, and am just collecting info.
unfortunately my resources here in the US are limited.
so i leave it up to you guys to find out the facts.

thanks for the help guys.

[phantomphlyer]

I saw your e-mail address and I assume that nick gerousis is your name, right? It sounds greek too me, why are you writing in English? 

Tάσο,
http://www.modelclub.gr/forums/index.php/topic,3486.0/highlight,beaver.html

this is my first post here. i'm greek, but live in the U.S.
i won't really be able to post in greek, i hope english is ok.

I didn't see this...now I got it! 

[Harris Charalambous]

Nick where exactly are you in the US.  We have members from Maryland, Virginia and California - it may be easier for us to help you with references and etc.  All three US members of the club are phanatic about the Greek airforce also.......

[nickypooh]

CHICAGO under 12" of snow. 

[ΧΑΡΙΔΗΜΟΣ]

Brother Nick,

we -all here in the MC - are very happy that you've join us and take part in our  discussions for a better and stronger Polemiki Aeroporia. Your question revived an old one that I had also too, and i didn't manage to have a clear answer. The only thing that we are sure is that P.A. got some planes from Israel, but the exact number is unknown, at least to me.  This fact confirm several sources f.e Wikipedia.

[Κωνσταντινος]

Hi Nick,

The Nord N2501D Noratlas have been granted from the Luftwaffe as Military Assistance. Some of the planes or probably all the planes have been inspected at Israel during an IRAN inspection (Inspect and Repair As Necessary)

[phantomphlyer]

This fact confirm several sources f.e Wikipedia.

...explain to me the term "bulk" please...is it possible to mean spare parts by this or it definitely means aircrafts...

[Corto]

This fact confirm several sources f.e Wikipedia.

...explain to me the term "bulk" please...is it possible to mean spare parts by this or it definitely means aircrafts...

From Wiki: The IAF phased the Noratlas out in 1978, and the bulk of their fleet was sold to the Greek (Hellenic) Air Force.

It means the IAF fleet as in whole. All the planes not bits and pieces. Or as we say here in the US... the whole kit and kaboodle

[Harris Charalambous]

Holy Cow Yiannni 

Buying in bulk means buying in large quantities (or in this case buying all of them) including the kithchen sink 

[phantomphlyer]

Thanks Corto!

So if we had bought the whole IAF fleet, I believe that it would be written clearly and officially somewhere, like Noratlas from Germany...right?

[nickypooh]

"bulk" would mean most of them.
I think they had about 16, so my best guess would be around 12 or so aircraft.
i'm sure they were air worthy. but i doubt HAF repainted them when they got them.
so that's the question. did they fly in HAF service painted in IAF colours????


 : 

[ΧΑΡΙΔΗΜΟΣ]

Below a Nord 2501 at the Israeli Air Force Museum at Hatzerim AB with the desert camo after the 1973 war.
Considering that Polemiki Aeroporia bought some of them around 1980, it would rather strange to retain
 their camo patern even for a few years...

[ΧΑΡΙΔΗΜΟΣ]

According to Bill Gunston: "An Illustrated Guide to Israeli Air Force" (Editor: Salamander Books 1982) Israel bought 24 N-2501 IS totally until 1976 when the type retired. Six (6) of them were sold to Polemiki Aeroporia (355 sqn).

There is also an interesting article at PTHSH magazine  SEP/2004 (n.228), of Alexandros Theologos, where we read that P.A. had around 40 to 50  ac in 2 sqns but nothing about jewish ones.

[Fantasma337]

Gunston was the only source mentioning this possibility, however it has not been confirmed yet by anyone else...

[aetosjm]

Dear All,

Regarding the Noratlas issue I have to tell you that Hellenic AF never received such a/c from Israel.
This is positively researched and checked, and it is definite.
My co-member in Air Britain and good friend from Aachen, Germany - Jörg Windmüller <jwindmueller@web.de> - who is researching Israeli AF (IDF/AF),  have done a through research on the N.2501 Noratlas in Israeli AF (IDF/AF) service, and he has gone through the individual histories of every single a/c.
The outcome is that not a single a/c was ever transferred to Hellenic AF from Israel.
I hope that this straightens things out, as this rumor go over and over for many years.

AetosJM

[nickypooh]

 

good to know!
thanks guys!

[ΧΑΡΙΔΗΜΟΣ]

Israel Air Force 4X-FAC, Nord Noratlas at Luton Airport

Beersheba - Hatzerim Israel, May 2008, 043 / 4X-FAC (cn D134) Stored at the IAF museum this aircraft was previously used by the German Luftwaffe.